Where does a micro end and a dwarf begin?

[Diane Whitehead]

Sounds good.

[dfollett]

I just looked online. There is a variety names "Patio Tomato" - at least I think it is a variety. https://www.gardeningchannel.com/how...atio-tomatoes/

[SeanInVa]

There is, I grew this for my mother 2 years ago in a 5 gallon bucket, purchased from local big box hardware store

https://bonnieplants.com/product/patio-tomato/

[SeanInVa]

"Apartment Tomato", "Balcony Tomato", "Gnome Tomato" (lol) or - and Dan, you might like this one:

Hobbit Tomato - goes well with second breakfast!

[dfollett]

There is, I grew this for my mother 2 years ago in a 5 gallon bucket, purchased from local big box hardware store

https://bonnieplants.com/product/patio-tomato/

How was it?

[Diane Whitehead]

I checked out Balcony, Gnome and Hobbit and there are no tomatoes named that on the Canadian list.

Gnome and Hobbit would fit well with Dwarf.

[SeanInVa]

Bunny Hop (who sells through Heritage) has a few with Balcony in the name or described as balcony-type:

https://heritageseedmarket.com/index...cony-tomatoes/

and

https://heritageseedmarket.com/index...ellow-balcony/

I have some seeds of the yellow balcony. I had some growing late last year, and from what I recall they were small plants but the fruits were ok. I need to grow some more and make notes.

[SeanInVa]

How was it?

It grew as described - 2 feet tall, give or take - rugose regular leaves. I'm trying to remember the actual tomatoes - that was the first year we tried growing tomatoes at her place, and she didn't get any until late in the season because the squirrels kept stealing them. I want to say she liked them - but then again, she likes tomatoes but not enough to start judging them aside from "supermarket ones are nasty". I am not sure I actually tried any of those.

[Diane Whitehead]

Here is what one of my sources of seeds, Pennard Plants in the U.K., considers very dwarf:



Product ID Sd1565
Tomato , Veranda Red (Bush Cherry) BLIGHT RESISTANT
Very Dwarf Patio Bush - Determinate (B.R) , BLIGHT RESISTANT - (Solanum lycopersicum) - (F1)The perfect fit to any Veranda, A very and we mean very, compact bush variety to about 12 inches, producing amazingly large trusses for its size, holding very tasty, normal cherry sized (12 to 16 grm) round, shiny red fruits. Ideal for outside or greenhouse container growing, balconies, Patio pots or (even a cool windowsill in the late autumn); The ultimate in Hand to Mouth - Pluck and Pop and it’s SO Cute! Determinate - NO side shoot removing and has a good resistance to Fusarium, Verticillium and also some resistance to Late Blight as well. , Seed Count Approx - 10 avg,.......... Seeds sent outside the United Kingdom may incur Higher Shipping / Handling Charges
Price: £2.00

[Diane Whitehead]

And Baker Creek has an even smaller one: Orange Hat Micro. 6 - 9 inches high, wildly prolific, oodles of tiny orange orbs that burst with fruity sweet flavor. fit in a 6 inch pot. Try as an edible ornamental, mass planted in borders or mixed containers.

Their photo shows more fruit than leaves.

I think it would be a good idea for us to have a collection of commercial micros like this to measure our micros against. We probably don't need to grow them yet - not till we are closer to naming and distributing any of ours.

[dfollett]

And Baker Creek has an even smaller one: Orange Hat Micro. 6 - 9 inches high, wildly prolific, oodles of tiny orange orbs that burst with fruity sweet flavor. fit in a 6 inch pot. Try as an edible ornamental, mass planted in borders or mixed containers.

Their photo shows more fruit than leaves.

I think it would be a good idea for us to have a collection of commercial micros like this to measure our micros against. We probably don't need to grow them yet - not till we are closer to naming and distributing any of ours.

Agreed. I've grown - and made crosses with - Orange Hat. They are indeed tiny fruit on short plants. The taste was fair at best. My cross 140X is a cross between a 33X carrot leaf micro and Orange Hat. Several of the F3s from that cross have been worthy of saving seed. The fruit has all been multicolored and quite a bit larger than Orange Hat (there is a photo of one in OneNote). The plants from that cross so far have been a bit larger than Orange hat. 144X is a cross between Orange Hat and 35X. I haven't grown any F2s from that cross.

I believe Pinocchio Orange is related to Orange Hat but don't know for sure. I've grown them both and they are very similar look, in plant size, fruit size, fruit color and taste. I have a couple of crosses with that one also - 138X, 143X & 145X. An interesting footnote about 138X - the cross between 33X (carrot leaf micro) X Pinocchio Orange... the F1 of that cross grew like an indeterminate. I started topping it at 4' tall and it was growing it a 6" pot. Apparently Pinocchio Orange doesn't share tiny genes with the 33X micro line. There are some photos from the 138X & 143X lines also. They both show real promise and I liked the idea of new micro genes.

I have seeds for both from those I grew if you want some.

[Diane Whitehead]

Thanks, they don't sound delicious, so I'll pass. I'll buy any available in the U.K. which you are less likely to have, and we can share them if they are good.

Actually, it might be good to include tasteless ones in our commercial collection. Maybe we will enter tomato-tasting contests with them and our new ones. I'm not sure exactly how these contests work - I've only read a bit about them.

Found an informative list of micros - Scooty on Tville Aug 4, 2019 micro-dwarf 2019 trials

[ddsack]

I think MicroDwarfs is as descriptive as anything, and what I would call these, no matter the leaf types as long as they fit into the small pot size parameters . But if you want to use a more generic term, Elfin tomatoes comes to mind.

[wykvlvr]

Wry grin my list of commercial micro dwarfs that I will have seed for is now up to 23 and there are a lot more I need to add...
This year I grew 9 of the 13 varieties I had seeds for.
I grew:

1. Hahms Gelbe
2. Baby
3. Aztek
4. Bonsai
5. Monetka
6. Pigmy
7. Rosy Finch
8. Yellow Canary
9. Micro Tom

Micro Tom was the only variety I grew inside and those were in 6 inch pots. All others were outside and in grow bags ranging from 1 gallon to 3 gallon. I did have a few in 6 inch pots, an 8 inch pot and a 12 inch pot. Plus 3 plants were in a window box.

Baby and Micro Tom produced plants that grew 4 inches tall at the max, Micro Tom produced 2 types of plants a squat large leafed plant with globe shaped tomatoes, they also produced a taller, finer leafed plant with heart shaped tomatoes that was only 4 inches tall.

My other 7 varieties produced taller plants in the 9 to 12 inch range. Even Pigmy/pygmy which was supposed to be only 5 inches tall produced a 9 inch tall plant with a 12 inch canopy in my window box that it shared with 2 Baby. My tallest plants were a 12 1/2 inch Bonsai in a 12 inch pot and a Rosy Finch at 12 inches in a 2 gallon grow bag. None of my outside micro dwarfs have ripe tomatoes yet so can't talk about taste but will be making notes about production and taste in the coming days.

I don't have Red Robin but have seeds for the following varieties either here or coming:

1. Vilma
2. Mohamed
3. Red Window Box
4. Yellow Dwarf (BH)
5. Yellow Micro Dwarf (RF)
6. Jochalos (RF)
7. Rejina (RF)
8. Micro Gemma (FH)
9. Micro Gold (FH)
10. Christmas Tree (FH)
11. Vilma (RF)
12. Mohamed (RF)
13. Red Window Box (RF)
14. Pinocchio I don't remember if this one is the orange or red version...

[kelmund]

Ultra compact determinate. Maybe A, B and C for different characteristics. I.e. type A is below 12". Type B is 12-18". Type C is more like compact dwarf. Then grown characteristics, semi - determinate, or strictly determinate. Imho, I think given time, all tomatoes are either semi-determinate or indeterminate. That's my observation from a tropical country. Cheers, Kelmund